INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF MILITARY FLIGHT SURGEON PILOTS
IAMFSP NEWSLETTER SPRING 2004
Lt Col Mark Adams, US Army Aeromedical Research Laboratory,
Attn MCMR UAD, PO Box 620577, Ft Rucker, AL 36362-0577
Greetings to all from Virginia where it is spring in the Valleys with lingering winter in the high mountains, with beautiful skiing in the nearby West Virginia mountains at Snowshoe. As I was riding on the lifts on Friday between ski runs I was thinking about IAMFSP, the long, deep friendships, and new ones in this organization, and how talented this group is.
I am reminded about how important it is to keep these relationships healthy throughout the year. In the past several years, the contacts in this organization have literally helped to get people better military positions, generated tons of new ideas throughout our AsMA panels, saved a few physicals here and there to keep people flying, and helped a mourning nation pay better tribute to a fallen astronaut that was once our President. We also have had, and currently have, our members serving as Commanders of Divisions and entire installations, high office/editorial positions in other professional societies, and even as leaders/co-leaders of several entire conferences in many places on the globe. I continue to be amazed by the folks in this group.
As far as our Annual Business Meeting goes, we will be meeting as a group on TUESDAY NIGHT May 4th, from 5:30 PM until midnight at the Cook Hotel on the “Aft Deck.” As usual, IAMFSP will provide a light dinner for our members, and a cash bar. I hope you will attend.
A sub-group of our organization, the USAF Pilot-Physicians will be meeting at the Hilton in the Spruce Room on Monday, May 3rd at 4:00-5:30 PM.
If you have not visited the website lately, please do so as Harry Hoffman has recently completed some website upgrades and transfer from our old service provider. His and Ed Park’s messages cover our current thinking about improvements to the website. Speaking of Ed, he and his girlfriend Carol Carriere fixed the best Korean dinner at Ed’s house for this writer that you can imagine. The spices were great—and strong. When the military police checked me just after the gate as I retuned towards the Visiting Officer Quarters, they pulled me over for an ID check and if you want to hear the rest of the story ask me in Anchorage…it has a happy ending…
As I have written before, Pete Wechgelaer is our Program Chair this year, and with super behind-the-scenes support from CAPTs Dave Hiland, Bill Busch from the Navy, and with Cols Tom Travis and Lex Brown on the USAF side, we have created a very interesting program of 11 papers in 2 sessions. And, as a bonus, new member Maj Jeff Armentrout and I added a Fatigue Session to the IAMFSP program offerings. Thanks again to Pete and Jeff Armentrout for their leading work on developing these IAMFSP-sponsored sessions.
As the VP IAMFSP, CAPT Dave Hiland serves on the AsMA Nominations Committee, as such, we are recommending an IAMFSP member for Council (Kris Belland) this year, and an IAMFSP member as President-Elect of AsMA (Michael Bagshaw). CAPT Hiland has done a great job in this and other roles for IAMFSP throughout the year as the VP, and I cannot thank him enough for his work, wise counsel, and other support. Please let Dave or me know if you are interested in being nominated for an AsMA-wide position in the next elections cycle.
Last spring, we divided the Secretary/Treas job into a Corresponding Secretary (Ed Park: helps with Website materials), Kathy Hughes (our Membership Chair: send her your address/email updates to her at firstname.lastname@example.org), and the Treasurer Pat Lowry at Patrick.Lowry@RANDOLPH.AF.MIL. But, please, a lot of this is up to you, to update your member data with Kathy, and she will pass it on to Harry, Ed, and our Newsletter Editor Mark Adams.
The Webmaster, Program Chair, and Newsletter Editor are all appointed positions by the President, with input from the President-elect and our members, while the other three positions just noted above are elected to 1-year terms. (Currently, our President and VP are still serving two-year terms.) We need to have elections at our Annual Business Meeting for these three positions noted in the previous paragraph. Current officer holders are eligible to run again if they so desire. Nominations will be taken from the floor for these positions.
Please send Mark Adams any NEWS OF MEMBERS you wish to have published in the next Newsletter at Mark.Adams@se.amedd.army.mil.
As a reminder, another new initiative has been the IAMFSP virtual Ski Team. For all of you downhill skiers out there, NASTAR is a recreational format and we now have a Team set up in the NASTAR computer. Go to www.nastar.com and you can find your way to:
http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=teamracing. We must have 6 or more members run the ski gates, record their scores, and then state in their personal “sign ins” that they wish to be a part of the IAMFSP "Friends/Family" Ski Team when you sign up to race and get your race ID. It is not too late to add this season’s race results to the IAMFSP friends and family Ski Team for our rankings. It will take only 4-5 mins of your time when on-line if you have already skied on a race course.
If you earn a NASTAR Medal during the season, feel free to write the group and let us know how things are going. I know that at least two members earned medals this year—Our founding President Jim Baker has earned a Gold Medal—Jim, get those results into the computer!
Speaking of skiing, since we will be in Alaska, if anyone in this group is interested in signing up for a ½ day Helicopter skiing adventure on either Friday or Saturday after the meeting is over, please let me know. You should probably be a strong intermediate skier or better.
IAMFSP is healthier organizationally, with members in very prominent positions at the AsMA meeting this year, and I once again look very much to the future.
VICE PRESIDENT'S COLUMN
Thanks to the efforts of Harry Hoffman, our Web Site looks good but he still needs help from many of you in getting your information up to date. I’ll admit that I was tardy in giving Harry my own information. Please take a moment to send Harry Hoffman or Ed Park an update to your “Biography”. Our goal is to make that site a useful location where the members can share information.
The U.S. Navy’s Aeromedical Dual Designator (AMDD) program is still alive and well. Captain Bill Busch, the AMDD Program Director, has a great article in this newsletter. Although funding for AMDD refresher training has not been available this year, we continue to have support for assigning the already Designated Aviators to locations where they have an opportunity to resume flying and where they can best apply their aviation knowledge to Aerospace Medicine. Although I am still listed as a Navy AMDD, I am not able to get close to a military aircraft. I have continued to flight instruct with the Langley Air Force Base Flying Club. In December I added a multi-engine instructor rating to my ticket. As a single engine jet guy, I found the exercise of shutting down an engine to be extremely stimulating and challenging.
As the Commanding Officer of the Navy Environmental Health Center (NEHC), I was recently very busy with my “Host” duties for the 43rd Navy Occupational Health and Preventive Medicine Workshop held in Chesapeake, VA from 18 through 26 March 2004. This is an annual multidisciplinary conference that provides continuing education for a broad spectrum of “Prevention” specialists from many services and many countries. The theme for this year’s Workshop, “Naval Medicine as a Defensive Weapons System”, formed a framework for operationally oriented public health programs in the areas of occupational health, preventive medicine, health promotion, and operational medicine. Prevention is a key element of Force Health Protection – essential to maintaining a healthy and fit force and to minimizing casualties. For the past several years, the Navy’s Flight Surgeons and Aviation Medicine Technicians have been participating in the Aviation Medicine courses and sessions. In spite of the intense deployment schedules, I was very pleased to see that Workshop attendance numbers were almost at 1400 people registered. This conference is an opportunity for all “Prevention” specialists to network and learn from colleagues. I encourage you all to take advantage of the opportunity to share the latest and greatest and attend the next year’s conference that will be held in March 2005 in Virginia Beach, VA.
With the advice of our IAMFSP President, the entrepreneurial Dwight Holland, I was able to nominate a few of you for offices in the Aerospace Medical Association. I think that we are going to have some happy outcomes announced during the meeting in May. Some of our IAMFSP members have recently returned from combat deployments. I hope that you all can attend the Scientific Meeting in Anchorage. I am looking forward to seeing you all and to learning from your experiences. As in previous years, we will hold an IAMFSP business meeting followed by a “social”.
Dave Hiland, CAPT, MC, USN
Vice President, IAMFSP
Navy Environmental Health Center
620 John Paul Jones Cir, Ste 1100
Portsmouth, VA 23708-2103
Hello from Pax River.
I’ve been Corresponding Secretary of our organization for almost a year now, and haven’t done much direct corresponding with y’all. But that’s changing. I’ve been soliciting inputs from members to send me current information about their professional activities to be posted on the web site (Kathy Hughes is collecting updated contact information for the membership roster). The response, however, has been, mildly speaking, under whelming. Therefore, you can expect me to accost you next month in Anchorage for these kinds of details. You can also expect follow up emails to your correct/current email address that we eagerly anticipate you will provide us at the annual meeting.
An oversight that I ought to correct at this time is that I’ve never actually formally introduced myself to the membership in print. So here goes:
As a pilot, my background is in maritime patrol flying the P-3 Orion. I’ve accumulated about 4500 hours over the years, most of it in variants of the P-3 as well as a variety of other aircraft, both fixed and rotary wing. After several years of flying both on active duty and in the reserve I attended medical school, internship, then proceeded directly into the Navy’s Residency in Aerospace Medicine in Pensacola. Following training, I was posted to Patuxent (Pax) River, MD, Naval Aviation’s counterpart to Edwards AFB, the site of the Navy’s Test Pilot School and developmental test squadrons, filling the role of senior flight surgeon for the Naval Test Wing Atlantic. Following that tour I stayed at Pax but moved to the Crew Systems Dept. of the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR), since renamed the Human Systems Dept., where I am today. My job includes providing medical oversight for the human subject research, conducted here by the Naval Air Warfare Center Aircraft Division (NAWCAD), and acting as an aeromedical consultant for the test teams. I continue to fly the P-3 augmenting the pilots at one of the tenant test squadrons.
Introduction complete. Segue…
The subject arises often regarding what our IAMFSP should be, and what we should do as an organization. Some see it as little more than an annual opportunity to hobnob with colleagues, eat some food, drink some drinks and vote for officers. Certainly we generate panels for the annual meeting, but only a relative few do the hard work and a few more participate. All well and good; that’s the formula of most organizations. Simply having members is good start, and I don’t say that sarcastically. Bulk and presence give us credibility without which we would have to rely on the dynamic personalities of Dwight and Dave to accomplish anything. I count myself among those who aspire to doing more as a group to contribute to the field of Aerospace Medicine. I see my role as an officer of IAMFSP to feed and facilitate the generation of bigger and better ideas for the organization, but being myself of somewhat limited imagination, I have only some vague ideas about what those can be. This bulky membership, however, should be able to come up with some inspiring concepts.
One thing we can do to better function as a body to facilitate and inspire the growth of Pilot-Flight Surgeon programs is to show that our membership is an active, dynamic and achievement-oriented group of individuals, not just a list of disembodied names. As I’ve voiced in smaller discussions, one way to do this is to use the web site to reflect our activities as members individually, as well as the group’s achievements.
I hope everyone is looking forward to the upcoming meeting in Anchorage. If funding comes through I’ll see you there, looking for ideas and information.
As the summer approaches, it appears that there will be ample opportunity to exercise my stick (ok, yoke) and rudder skills. I will likely spend at least six weeks of the June – August period on flight detachments in the P-3 to such places as K-Bay, Hawaii and Adak, Alaska (can’t get enough of Alaska, it would seem…, but have you ever been to Adak……?). I can only hope many of you are enjoying similar opportunities. I am indeed fortunate to be in a position in the Navy where I can fully function as both a pilot and a flight surgeon, in one job.
Aaah, yes, the membership update! OK, so it’s not the most exciting topic in the world, but you can help spice things up by updating your information via email to me: N143mb@earthlink.net or through our new website: http://iamfsp.net. Harry is our web guru and done a great job getting this site polished for us, so visit the webpage and brag about yourself!
I coerced an fellow A-10 pilot into writing an easy to use excel spreadsheet program to keep track of our roster. The membership data is now simple to input, update and is a more powerful information tool should the IAMFSP organization need it. Copies will be available at the AsMA meeting if anyone needs it. Let me know in advance should you need the listing.
Now that Idaho has begun to melt from the heavy winter snows, the foothills are green (for about another month), steelhead had a record run through Stanley, and the burms we shoot for weapons scoring on the Saylor Creek range are thawed --- the sound of the 300mm Gatling gun returns south of the Snake River. The flying is especially busy with units in the Air National Guard and AF Reserves upgrading their A-10 pilots with the Litening II targeting pod. This is an IR targeting pod with laser capability to mark targets, obtain battle damage assessment, self or buddy lase, and guide bombs with pin-point accuracy. The ability of the pod and the incredible pictures displayed in the cockpit are captivating, but many human factors risks come with it. It greatly expands the capability of the A-10 as the supreme Close Air Support platform, but if employed without the thoughts of deconfliction plans, laser safety, task saturation and misprioritization, it could be disastrous for pilots and our troops on the ground.
On a last note, if anyone has experience as a flight surgeon in the Air National Guard, please let me know. As an active duty flight doc working with the Guard, I have begun to realize that even though the regulation we all adhere to is the same, the application is anything but. Insights, please?!?
Looking forward to seeing all of you in Anchorage!
I’m Maj Pat Lowry, the IAMFSP Treasurer. Being stationed in the San Antonio area is a definite advantage since our organization’s banking is done here. My plan is to be here for at least 4 more years, so I’d be happy to keep the baton if y’all want me to (I have to use language that proves I’m a real Texan). I’m working on having IAMFSP granted IRS section 501(c)(3) status as a “Not-for-Profit Charitable” organization. Doing so will allow tax-exempt contributions, and allow us not to get into potential trouble with the government for the interest on our Money Market Fund that Pete Mapes set up years ago as Sec/Treas. But, there will be some important rules to follow that I’ll explain in detail once we’re granted the status.
Currently, IAMFSP has total financial assets of $2364.97., with just over 352.00 in a seed “endowment fund” Dwight Holland has set up in a separate account in Virginia. Please continue to email or call with updates to addresses or other information. Upon request I will send our membership database as an email attachment. I encourage everyone to send dues to me ($15/year, made out to IAMFSP); if you are overdue or just want to get ahead:
We also accept contributions specifically earmarked for the endowment fund account. Any contributions are fully tax-deductible for US citizens—I cannot comment on other nationalities. We plan to grow the endowment account and use it to eventually pay for IAMFSP Awards, plaques, and to help offset other annual costs.
IAMFSP has acquired its own domain name: IAMFSP.net
The URL of the new website is: http://www.iamfsp.net
As I stated in the last newsletter, the webhost will – for the time being – continue to be Yahoo/Geocities at a cost of $11.95 per month . There are cheaper webhost alternatives that offer many more features, but this is the best compromise choice for now. Websites and domains are portable and can be moved to another webhosting site in the future if we choose.
The old website at http://www.geocities.com/iamfsp/ now has a referral page that will automatically transport visitors to the new site. Consequently, anyone who has bookmarked or searched for and found the old site will be redirected properly. Please remember to bookmark the new one.
The format and general content of the new website is essentially a mirror of the old. The task of moving the site to the new location, however, required about 40 hours of hand coding to update links and graphics. But the good news is that the bulk of the work is done and most future efforts can be directed at implementing new features, updating bios, and some other new bells and whistles. We now have a guestbook that actually works. There are some other issues (such as whether or not to implement a password-protected area for members only) that will probably be more effectively discussed and decided at the annual meeting. Meanwhile, please feel free to suggest features and improvements. It makes the task much easier, however, if you actually contribute material (such as scanned photos or the text you would like to see online) rather than to just suggest an idea and wait for others to do the legwork.
As a reminder, please be aware of and use our IAMFSP Yahoogroup: our e-mail list has been in existence since September 1998. It remains our most effective method of communication among members so that we can actually accomplish things in between the annual meetings at AsMA.
We use the Yahoogroup for the electronic distribution of the newsletter. The cash savings to the treasury as opposed to US Mail distribution is significant. It was only necessary to send out four hard-copy newsletters by Snail Mail as of the last edition. However, one of the continuing problems has been that many members change e-mail and/or mailing addresses frequently (particularly active duty military), and don’t update this information with anyone. If we don’t have current information on you, we obviously can’t communicate with you.
Here is how you can keep your e-mail address current on the IAMFSP Yahoogroup, assuming you are already subscribed:
PLEASE NOTE that you must use the individual e-mail account you are subscribed with for the above e-mail commands to be effective!
Once subscribed, you can ‘broadcast’ a message to all other subscribers to the IAMFSP Yahoogroup by sending it to this address: IAMFSP@yahoogroups.com
AsMA: ANCHORAGE 2004
IAMFSP Panel News:
“Current Programs and Platforms and Lessons learned for the Future” is one of our offerings in Alaska. Dwight Holland and Jeff Armentrout also have a Fatigue panel. As Program Chair for our, “traditional panel,” I would like to briefly preview this rather diverse collection of presentations.
1. Tom Travis is presenting some of the human systems integration and human performance work being done at the 311th Human Systems Wing at Brooks.
2. Eliot Rosenberg has some very interesting survey results from the IAF regarding fatigue and the attitudes toward the regulations in place to mitigate fatigue.
3. John Mansueti presents some F/A-18 single seat issues from a Dual Designator’s perspective and a look ahead to the JSF.
4. Jeff Armentrout is offering up some C-5 modernization issues with the transition to a glass cockpit.
5. Bill Agerton has some comments on personalities and the challenges of teaching F-14s new tricks.
6. I have two Harrier mishaps that I want to present for their interesting human factors, but looks like there may only be time for one.
7. Kathy Hughes will convince everyone that Warthogs are beautiful. I’m sorry, had to say that. She will also have some tactics and human factors challenges to present.
8. Dwight Holland, USNTPS Director John O’Connor, and Dr Jim Casler will present some interesting comments on human factors and acquisition issues from the Test Pilot School Crew Systems curriculum that they are constantly updating at USNTPS.
9. Ed Park addresses some of the aeromedical and human factors issues with the changing role of maritime patrol aircraft.
10. Jim Baker is presenting some different TSAS issues, examining the safety issues of having tactors close to the body in the event of a mishap.
Please support our panel and spread the word, we don’t want folks to miss out on this opportunity. I truly believe that we need to share our experiences with as many people as possible. Secrets do not benefit our community and do nothing to promote safe flying. So start thinking about presenting next year.
An update from the
British Army membership:
Malcolm Braithwaite "clinging on" as "chief" for another few months (the top rung of the ladder now very worn and slippery and the ladder being shaken by more and more colleagues!)
Mark Adams still the UK exchange at USAARL - doing sterling stuff on the Aviation Life Support Equipment Retrieval Program.
Paul Cain (out of Avn Med for a while) as Commanding Officer of 22 Field Hospital - returns from Iraq shortly.
Ian Curry about to be married to Claire.
Mike Harrigan continues as the SO1 Avn Med at HQ Joint Helicopter Command - busy visiting units overseas (including those in hot places), sailing and doing some stalwart staff work!
Alaistair Bushby nearing completion of specialist training.
Ditto for Mark Rooms.
Giles Austin attending the Diploma in Aviation Medicine course.
Lynne Walters about to come to the end of her flying tour and will join Malcolm at Middle Wallop for a few months.
Claire Jackson, our recent "poach" from the Royal Air Force has now "fledged" and started a flying tour in Northern Ireland.
Simon Theakston - looking forward to starting his flying course in May.
Jaishan Mahan - looking forward to starting his flying course in September.
Kind regards to all,
The Navy Aeromedical Dual Designator Program continues to mature after a 3 plus year re-organizational process that saw exponential growth in medical corps and line corps support, resulting in many new members. In review, the Navy AMDD program started during WWI and by the year 2000 had consisted of a total of only 67 officers who have held the status and simultaneous currency as a rated naval flight surgeon and naval aviator.
Remarkably, we were able to initiate 20 new members into the program during the years 2001-02 and this included several "initial train" pilots who came out of the regular flight surgeon ranks. Although on the upswing with tremendous support from BUMED and BUPERS, we did have a rough selection year this past fall. In spite of numerous, outstanding and highly desirable applicants, we were not able to select even a single person for training due to budget restraints and training slot unavailability. We did place 4 highly qualified individuals on an alternate selection list pending training opportunities. They represent the very best of their fields, are well trained and research oriented, and are most desirable to the program.
We currently have 23 Navy AMDDs who are serving on active duty and a significant number of them are in flying billets. A couple of officers have left active duty to retire and there are 5 AMDDs who will start residency training this summer in areas to include ER, Ophtho, and Aerospace Medicine. They will be encouraged to return to the ranks of the AMDD world upon completion. Currently, we have AMDDs among our ranks that represent specialty training/skills in AsMed, Ophtho, FamPrac, OB/GYN, AMSO, OccMed, JAG and Test Pilot School. The last "initial train" pilot to start the program is about to graduate from the S-3B FRS this summer. He has done an outstanding job in the training command and will be a valuable asset to the fleet.
There are at least 4 prior NA/NFOs in the medical training pipeline who have contacted the program with interest. They will become eligible upon achieving their Flight Surgeon Wings. We have one prior Naval Aviator who got his FS wings this past January and was ordered to an FRS squadron with pilot refresher training en route. Another fine example of the support we are getting from the Med/Line Corps.
The focus of our Navy AMDD program has evolved over the past few years to include new philosophies that are geared towards infiltrating multiple communities and platforms, thus representing a fleet wide presence. We are getting outstanding support from the Med/Line Corps and anticipate many more advancements for the program over the next few years. Overall, this program is probably as healthy and prosperous as it has been in its 9-decade history.
CAPT Bill Busch, AMDD Program Chairman
Kris Belland. Currently the Battle Force Seventh Fleet Surgeon and Senior Medical Officer of the USS KITTY HAWK (CV-63) permanently forward deployed out of Yokosuka Japan. Medically in charge of three Carrier Strike Forces during OIF. Not flying much as a Department Head, and staff weenie. Just got orders to be the Third Fleet Surgeon out of San Diego, will move in June. The new billet/job will test new strategies and technologies (SEA TRIALS) for all the Navy Battle Forces/Carrier Strike Forces. Published Aircrew Performance Cutting-Edge Tech Occasional Paper No. 35, September 2003, Center for Strategy and Technology, Air War College, Air University, Maxwell Air Force Base. It received the USAF Historical Foundations award for the most significant paper to the USAF today. Kinda ironic being written by a Navy guy.
Kris M. Belland
CDR MC USN
Battle Force Seventh Fleet Surgeon
Senior Medical Officer
USS KITTY HAWK (CV-63)
Lee Harvis. Some brief news- I will be presenting at two Panels at AsMA- Cardiology (Mild Aortic Insufficiency and Acceleration) and RAM Grand Rounds (Thrombocytosis case report.) Also was just selected to be next years Chief Resident (RAM).
Lee H Harvis
MAJOR, USAF, MC
USAFSAM/GE RAM 05
Dwight Holland. I am “retiring” after finishing my 7th year as a member of the Supervisory Committee of Member One Federal Credit Union, and now as the Chairperson for the past 2 years. We are now the fastest growing credit union in Virginia at over 25%/year, and have achieved the highest scores from the US government overall for the past 4 years due to our financial management and overall performance.
Jack Shields. CAPT USN (Ret)—flew F-18’s/P-3’s for years and now is retired in Florida. He is missing flying and says hello to all, but is happy to be away from other aspects of military life.
Tom Travis (submitted by Dwight Holland since he is stationed in San Antonio at Brooks City-Base). I hear that Col Tom Travis, our former President of IAMFSP, and currently the Human-Systems Center Commander at Brooks City-Base near San Antonio has been recommended for a star pending Senate/Presidential approval. The Colonel would not have submitted this himself, so I’ll say it—Great Job, and CONGRATULATIONS.
[Note: Since “The Alamo” movie just came out this week in the US: Col Travis and I have something in common by namesake. History records that a L/C Travis was at the Alamo (present day San Antonio) as was a lad named Tapley Holland with Travis commanding (see—nothing ever changes!). Well, Col Travis decided it would be a pretty tough fight and so he draws a line in the sand and asks for volunteers to stand and fight with not even 150 guys versus a zillion Mexicans by saying something like “Will any brave men here stand and fight for Texas?” He looks for junior volunteers to get the ball rolling (since many are shy to step across the line, and most feel they will likely die in the Mexican attack). Travis looks directly at young Alamo defender Tapley Holland. Well, the modern Col Tom Travis asked the modern Holland in an email this past year when presented with this interesting historical coincidence—“So, Dwight—What did he do—(just kidding)? <grin> [Answer—Tapley Holland crossed that line, but I’ll bet he could have used a set of DEPENDS adult diapers! Sir.]
Many thanks to all who have contributed to this edition, for without you I would be out of a job and Dwight would have a sense of humour failure. It is particularly pleasing to have more contributions to “Members News” than previously. I have resisted the temptation to tinker with individual submissions so please be tolerant of transatlantic syntax differences! The next edition will be out in the summer, with information about AsMA and the AGM for all those, like myself, who are unable to attend this year. So please have your submissions to me before the end of July if possible. I will of course issue a reminder closer to the time.
Please send newsletter submissions as a Word document attached to your email in Times New Roman, 12 point and this will help speed things up at my end. Many thanks.